All We Got Is Us: An Interview with REBOE, SOUTH, ZAM, ACEM, BAT, SMOE and ANSO

Not too long ago, it was still possible to sit down for a conversation face to face. Those days are over for now, but our state of individual isolation—I hope you are all staying home and keeping your distance from each other, particularly from the elderly—also offers an opportunity for introspection and entertainment. All We Got Is Us, directed by REBOE LNE, is a bombing film, it’s raw and primal, and part of its power lies in showing what you can accomplish with the help of your friends when you set your mind to it. In this interview, we touch on many issues that are relevant in graffiti today across different generations of writers. Keep these words in mind as you watch the film once it’s available online in early April. (Photos: Ray Mock.)

CARNAGE: What's the state of New York City graffiti right now? 

SOUTH: Graffiti is so bad now, I hate it. People are doing it for the wrong reasons, the wrong kind of attention. Graffiti has become passionless. It's sad, because back in the days I would look at graff and be inspired by it, but now it's just a bunch of colorful shit. 

ACEM: It ebbs and flows. New York is a microcosm of the universe and that fact alone creates an environment of constant change that is reflected in the state of its graffiti. People moving in, people moving out. Spots come and go quick in coherence with the physical infrastructure of the city. The buff keeps people active and the scene alive. New York graffiti is alive and well in 2020. The scene being different from how it was in the ‘90’s, early 2000’s, or even 3 years ago doesn’t make it “dead”. It makes it different. Change is constant and the only thing in life that is guaranteed. Humans fear change and label it as negative far too often. It is what it is.

REBOE: I feel like no matter what era of graffiti it is, there’s always going to be good graffiti, and bad graffiti. People are going mad hard and doing crazy spots, but a lot of people are also not showing respect to those who paved the way, there's a lot of dumbasses out there that really don’t know what they’re doing. People hide behind color schemes, getting down in popular crews, getting up with someone who’s “popular”, and having can control, but they lack letter structure. Being able to paint the same shitty letters clean doesn't change the fact that the letters are bad, it just means you know how to paint that throw-up. A lot of people have good throw-ups, but have a very shitty/no handstyle. That should be the first thing you learn, tags are the root of it all.

SMOE: There's a lot of good things going on right now, but--not to sound generic--there’s also a lot of people who shouldn’t be painting at all. There’s a big lack of creativity nowadays. Most of what you see now is just the same fillins over and over again. I feel like people aren't pushing new styles as much as in the past. Dudes out here will have a million fillins, and every single one is the exact same. And a lot of heads don’t have nice handstyles either, I gotta keep it a hundred. But there’s definitely groups of people who are keeping it real and pushing the limits.

ZAM: It's hard to find inspiration nowadays, because back then people were coming out with new styles so often. The beauty of graffiti is its potential, like a blank canvas. It's limitless. You can literally do the craziest shit and seeing people settle for garbage and being proud of it is sad. You should grow every single day. For me, if it wasn't for SOUTH I would not have progressed as much as I did, trying to paint clean. I would rock next to him when we first started and I'd be like, all right, my shit doesn't look that good, I gotta clean up my lines, fix my shadows, I gotta really take my time, and that would motivate me to go home and draw. I don't think kids do that nowadays. 

SOUTH: People aren't sketching enough for sure. Sketching is vital. Go home, take your time, sketch. Some of the older generation are not schooling the new generation, but a lot of the new generation doesn't want to listen to them when they are kicking game and giving them criticism

ZAM: A lot of good writers are locked up in their houses with their ego and they don't want to help the young generation. They don't realize that we are the people that are going to keep doing this no matter what, so they might as well teach us. 

REBOE: Another thing that sucks is Instagram. It gives a false perception about who's really up. It’s also pretty hilarious to see this social game that people play and how hard they try to get down with other peoples crews, shit is mad funny.

SMOE: And when someone sees your work through the internet, they get a false perception of who you are. So they're going to hit you up and think that you're going to be friends and want to hang out because they're giving you respect and it's like, no dude. I'm not gonna go link with some random ass person off the internet. 

BAT: I don't trust anybody. 

CARNAGE: On the subject of quality, what defines good or proper graffiti for you?

SOUTH: There is no one correct way to write graffiti. There is no one set style. I think it's cool that people have different styles. Self-expression, man. No human in this world is exactly like another person, everyone's unique, so it should reflect in the graff. Don't copy other people, let it come from your heart.

ZAM: It's broken down into so many things. In one spot, you may have to look at the bricks, how the paint's going to eat it, what paint to use, what colors to use, what style to use. One little line can make a difference. 

SOUTH: It's all about execution and creativity. Every writer is gonna have their own perception on how they want to hit spots and what's considered good/proper graffiti. Writers are going to see a spot and all have a different approach to how they wanna paint the spot. Some might wanna solid or dusty fill, others might go all out and burn it. What makes it done properly is when it’s done creatively and with grace.I always enjoyed painting spots that forced me to get creative to work with the space. It pulls new ideas out of me.

CARNAGE: Is painting in New York different than anywhere else?

ACEM: Without a doubt. I like to paint with intelligence and precision. To do that in NY, you have to have knowledge of the areas. You have to have hyper-awareness and a deep understanding of the demographic of people who are living in the neighborhoods you are painting. You can’t paint downtown the same way you’d go about painting LIC or South Brooklyn. In my experience, in other cities and countries, you can go and paint and have no real plan of execution and things will more than likely play out smoothly. New York has a heavy police presence, vandal squad, in some areas undercovers will pass you every 10 minutes. Different boroughs can be like different countries. So it’s important to do the knowledge before you go out and do your thing. Reboe helped me learn much about all of this.

REBOE: I completely agree with what ACEM said.

ZAM: I’ve visited multiple cities, and seen graffiti there and other countries, but there's no place like New York. In some countries I’ve been, it felt like there were no cops. They did not give a fuck. But I get back to New York and I feel this constant tension, not even with graffiti, just living life here. You feel like there are eyes on you all the time.

SOUTH: New York feels like a big jail. As far as painting, things are getting worse quickly. Spots are getting burned way faster than they used to. Spots are getting shut down, shit's getting hotter, there's more cops. It makes it more rewarding when you do it, which is kind of cool, but the game is getting more difficult. I mean, there's always gonna be ways to get over but this shit is changing quickly. It could make or break a lot of people.

ZAM: I wouldn't change it. Graffiti taught me to be more alert in my everyday life. I know what's going on around me, just walking up and down the street, no matter where. If something happens around me, I know how to handle that situation. It taught me to be mentally strong.

SOUTH: What can I say, when you get over around here, getting over in other cities is a piece of cake. New York is the ultimate graffiti boot camp. You go to another city, it's a fucking joke.

CARNAGE: What are some of your favorite spots to paint in NY?

ZAM: I was inspired by this dude NIRO. He taught me a lot about picking quality spots. His were so unique and out of reach. A regular person cannot do that. You literally have to train your body and your mind to hit a certain spot. These certain spots are spread around the city and people are aware of them, know what goes into painting them. But that's the beauty behind it.

SOUTH: I'm into my tracks. Shit's cool man, it fits me as a person, in the sense that I'm chill, but I can be hyper sometimes. When you're down there in the tracks it's chill as fuck. You go down there, you relax, you do your thing, you think about life a little bit and shit. It's extremely therapeutic. I can't even explain it. But then when that train flies by it gets crazy. It keeps your senses so alert, it's so sick, like you feel yourself more deeply when you're doing that. I feel very connected with myself there.

ZAM: I like being in that moment. Knowing I'm not walking on the sidewalk with all these mindless people, I'm fucking hanging off of some shit and you just feel so alive in that moment. You know there are people 10 feet away from you on top of the tracks in their homes, sleeping and cuddling with their pillows and you're all grimey and the train is two inches away from you and it's like, “what the fuck am I doing here?” But that's when you feel alive. There's no hobby, there's no sport, there's nothing in this world that can compare to graffiti in that way.

In highschool I would grab a beer and sit on the catwalk on top of the tracks and just sit there, I didn't even have paint or nothing, I would just sit there and chill. There's a beauty in doing something you're not supposed to be doing. I'll paint all night and I'll go to work in the morning and I haven't slept in 24 hours, but knowing I did that spot gives me strength to get through the day.

SOUTH: Your brain controls your body and that's proof, that excitement definitely gets you through work. 

ZAM: This isolates us from the everyday person.

SOUTH: It goes to show how powerful graff is. 

CARNAGE: How do you feel about people trashing tunnels, going over old tags and stuff?

SOUTH: It's not right. There's so much space down there, it shouldn't even be happening. Mad space. If it's old I'm not gonna go over it, I'll just let it be. It's a museum. If there's no space just let it slide. Roofs are suffering the same fate as tunnels right now. Certain shit you just don't go over. You're ruining people's memories at that point.

ZAM: It comes back to people not being educated and not knowing what they're doing. You have to know when to not do a spot and be patient, even if you're hyped and you have thirty cans in your bag. Sometimes you have to say “not tonight.’’

CARNAGE: Who are some of the writers, from New York or elsewhere, that influenced you guys? Is there still such a thing as a New York style?

SMOE: I know they're not from New York, but definitely heads like WANT and PEAR. There's definitely a lot of writers that come to mind and not to sound corny, but nowadays it's all my homies. I'm cliqued up now with people who I've looked up to for years. Homies like SOUTH, BEOH, fucking REBOE, ACEM. These guys motivate me because I see what they're doing on a first-hand basis.

REBOE: I spent a lot of time in South Brooklyn as a kid and I remember seeing all the ACC dudes up, like DRO, DEM, MS, NETA, 2ESAE and a few others, that got me really into graffiti just seeing the same names over and over again, I became obsessed with it. “Why do they do it? What do you get out of it? These dudes risk their freedom just to paint a wall and get their name up?” I thought that shit was so ill and I immediately wanted to get with it. As I got older I started figuring out what styles I was really into, I always loved ZE’s classic throw-up, bubbly and very readable. It's almost like a pattern, all the letters are simple, but with flavor, and flow with each other. GOUCH and SOBER are two of my favorites all around. Fucking destroyed Flatbush alongside dudes like DINK and BONER.

In terms of handstyles, I like dudes like EARSNOT, JADE (RIP), GESHU, who is also part of the video, GESHU and I became personal friends through this project and I can’t thank him enough for being in this, and also educating me on a lot of shit that I definitely was not up on, a major shoutout to my man GESHU RYB. I'm nowhere near where I want to be, but those dudes inspire me, they make me want to get fucking crazy with tags. In terms of spots, he's not from New York, but ADEK, him coming to New York and doing huge, solid fill-ins on spots that I would see people only do tags and outlines on, that definitely made me want to do that shit. VFR is another inspiration for me.

I remember seeing ANSO up a shit ton, in my honest opinion he has painted the hardest out of anybody out of my generation. I randomly met him one night and me and him instantly clicked and became close friends. SOUTH had put me down in LNE around the same time and once me and ANSO linked up we all started coming together as a crew. LNE will probably be the only crew I will ever push for the rest of my life.

BAT: For me OLA is definitely my number one inspiration. Part of how I operate is still because of him and I don't think he gets a lot of credit, but really he's been around a lot longer than me and he's a very versatile graffiti writer and he's a good criminal, too. He goes to prison and gets out and starts right back up again. He's one of those guys that will just never learn and that's what I love about him. I get to be friends with him, but at the same time he'll fucking let me know when I'm blowing it and he'll definitely be like "You could be doing more!" 

As far as New York graffiti goes, I have to say, even if he doesn't like me, KEZ5. KEZ5 is the embodiment of grimy fucking bombing history. You got capped by KEZ5? Good for you.

ACEM: New York graffiti writers cemented in stone what it meant to truly bomb. There are so many writers in New York that the approach becomes just as important as the style of the letters themselves. Repetition is vitality, consistency: the essence. Like I said, New York is a microcosm of the universe. The New York scene is the world’s scene. Writers from Japan, Philly, Boston, LA, Oakland, Taipei, Europe, they all come to New York. New York graff gives me inspiration in that without even leaving NY, i can see the styles of different parts of the world all on one block.... even on one gate. MQ, EARSNOT, TRAP IF, LEWY; DMS, IRAK, and BTM crews are all heavy inspirations of mine.

SOUTH: PS War is the man. I used to see him up a lot. I met him when I was a kid, he hit my book. I told him, too, I never forgot about that and he actually remembered. I met up again with him recently. He got me way into doing two-letter throwies. You can fit those into certain spaces. His throw-up is super sick. His homies, too, SCOPE and NUKE. Huge, huge inspirations. They got me into wanting to do straight letters, wanting to do tunnels, and they definitely put the idea of executing spots a certain way into my head. In tunnels, with certain walls there's only so much space, and I like the way that SCOPE and NUKE used the space to do their letters and fit straight letters on small walls. The way they do tick-tock letters or split them into two. SCOPE and NUKE are as New York as it gets.

ZAM: That old New York graffiti had a kick to it that I feel is missing nowadays. 

SOUTH: Late ‘90s, early 2000s was when graff was in its prime stylewise. Everyone out was dope. When you see footage of spots back then, everything was good, the fill-ins and the tags. People are too much in their comfort zones right now. They're afraid to bend their letters a little bit and get crazy. People are afraid to try different shit.

ZAM: No one is telling them their shit is whack. People get likes on Instagram and it's gassing them up. 

SOUTH: People get their inspiration from the wrong places. I was inspired by the streets. The streets was sick, the streets had fly shit back then.

CARNAGE: Let’s talk about the film, All We Got Is Us. How did the idea for the video come about and what does its name mean to you?

REBOE: It was just gonna be an LNE crew video featuring me, SOUTH, BEOH, ANSO, ACEM and ZAM, but the very first night I got the camera, I met up with ERUP and I filmed him doing a fill on Delancey at like 7pm, and I immediatley was like, “Fuck this, I'm about to make this a huge project.” But the thing is, all the people involved, are all people that I actually fuck with as a friend. I’ll never be the person to chase anyone down just because they’re “up” or “known”. I did this to bring all my friends the shine they deserve. That's why I decided to name it “All We Got Is Us”, this video is for the people involved in it, and the culture. We live in a fucked up and sickening world, every day it gets worse and worse, the planet is deteriorating as we speak (due to us) and the only thing most self-absorbed dickheads are concerned with is how many likes their fucking instagram selfie got.

On top of all of that, the city I grew up in caters to a bunch of crybaby, privileged, yuppie scumbags who only care about receiving their parents fucking direct deposit every month so they can spend it on partying or $8 cups of coffee or some other dumb usless shit. But despite all the whack shit that goes on, at the end of the day, we can all go outside at night and fuck shit up. Painting graffiti with my friends is one of the only things that makes my life decent. Sounds corny, but in reality, the government, the police, the president, your boss, they don’t give a fuck if you live or die, all you are to them is just another number, so at the end of the day, All We Got Is Us. I also feel like people are not making cool graffiti videos anymore. I'm not going to name-drop anyone or anything, but people are making graffiti videos with drone cameras and like, techno/dubstep music, that’s not graffiti, that’s some bullshit. Graffiti should be documented the old school way: tape cameras, film cameras, old school music. 

ACEM: All of the people I get up with are my closest friends. I trust my life in their hands and they trust theirs in mine. These are people I travel with, rack with, live with, break bread with and would go to the absolute furthest extent for in any way. They know this and I know this.  Loyalty and honor amongst friends, a trait I could never take for granted. When I’m with any of the people I write with, they can be sure I’m absolutely ready to do what is necessary to ensure their well-being, at all times. The name of the film then becomes self explanatory.

SOUTH: It's a crew thing. It's family. All We Got Is Us in a cold ass world, man. New York is a fucked up place. To find real friends is a rare thing. All of us bonded through graff and this is us having fun together, this is us bonding, you know what I mean?

ZAM: It all comes down to how we are bred into a world that has a structure of rules, standards and ideas to live by without our approval. This city and many cities in this world are just graveyards of souls, hopes and dreams, lost in this vacuum of energy, consuming different forms of death on the daily, whether it’s subliminally absorbing false and negative energies of the decaying flesh that’s on your plate. “All We Got Is Us” is used to describe the like minded individuals that see through all this programming and constantly work on breaking these molds through self control.  Before we started filming, Me and REBOE had a spot planned, this high spot, and I was like, “I’m gonna go do it, it's gotta get done.” And he's like, “No! Wait for the camera to come in the mail!”

REBOE: That was a good spot, it had to have been like 15 degrees that night. It's in the video, the train station high spot. I was standing there by myself in fucking East New York trying to film this shit while looking out for cops too, I was getting the craziest looks from people, like “Why the fuck is this fool standing here with a tape camera in the middle of the night?”

ZAM: I went up to the station and as soon as I opened the door, there were two cops right in the station. I'm on the phone with him, I'm like “Bro, there's fucking cops here. I don't know if I should do it tonight.” He said, ‘We're here right now, it's either now or never, just do what you feel is right.” I was like, “Fuck it, I'm going up.” No joke, those cops were literally under my feet. The only thing between me and those cops was a foot of cement and the train tracks.

CARNAGE: What are some of the videos that you think do justice to New York graffiti and that inspired you?

REBOE: State Your Name. To this day, I probably watch State Your Name at least every other week. And all the FUKGRAFF videos. If you want to see what real New York graffiti is just watch those.

SMOE: One video that comes to my mind that's not strictly strictly New York, but captured a huge essence of New York, was Infamy. That's a classic. EARSNOT, CLAW, 17 ... it captured a great era of New York that I was looking up to when I was young. That's when shit was really popping off. It's nice to try and bring back real bombing. Fuck dubstep videos. Graffiti should be grimy and aggressive. Behind all the videos and smoke and mirrors, we're out here getting spots, getting into fights, dealing with mad crazy shit. 

REBOE: Like the first night I met SMOE. It was a Friday night, we were painting some pretty hot spots, you painted a solid ass fill-in on Canal Street, and then out of nowhere, mad cops and detectives are flying down the block and blocking off every street down the entire block, we dipped off the street and walked up a side street out of paranoia, we look down the block and there's a fucking plane going down Canal Street. 

SMOE: It was the body of a giant jet plane [a defunct TWA Connie jet - ed.] that they had to get through the city so they shut everything down. It’s one of those things that comes with being out at night and seeing a lot of crazy shit, it  goes along with the lifestyle we have. 

REBOE: Mad shit happened that night. We watched two dudes catch tags, our homie LUCY came up and starts rocking a fill right over their tags, he didn’t even know they just did them, that shit was mad funny, they pretty salty about it. Then you fought that other writer, I'm not gonna drop his name, but he ended up being a cool dude. All I remember hearing was “What you write? What YOU write!?” Next thing I know you guys were shooting the fair ones, right in the middle of Delancey. That shit was wild. 

SMOE: A lot of crazy shit comes with writing graffiti. 

BAT: I think graffiti definitely belongs in the gutter and needs to stay in the gutter, with the prostitutes, and the drug dealers and the homeless people.

REBOE: One thing that brought me and BAT together was going over street artist murals. 

BAT: I'm a part of the destruction of society, not the beautification of society. Anything that beautifies society is going to draw in the people that don't belong in that neighborhood. And that's the message to the muralists: your help is not needed here. Help not wanted. It’s the opposite of an advertisement for coming to this neighborhood. Don't come to this neighborhood. When I was a kid, where I grew up, when I started seeing graffiti, I knew that I was in the wrong neighborhood. Now it's like, let's make a sprite commercial here, this is awesome, let's have people fucking splash paint on walls and draw giraffes. 

REBOE: That's another thing, especially with all these fucking hipsters moving into New York. I think fighting is pretty corny for the most part, unless you really have to, but when people have some shit to say when you're painting, that shit really pisses me off. Last night I was looking UGENE out on a fill, he's filling in and some dude comes up behind him and he's talking to him. I'm like “Yo, what the fuck are you doing? Move, get out of here.” I hate that shit. Fucking drunk frat dudes.

SMOE: Yeah, nowadays there's a real cushy side to Graffiti, then there's real graffiti, which is what I hope this video encompasses.

BAT: If street art is a symbol of a healthy society then I want to be the symbol of the plague of society that cancels out health and creates fucking disease. 

CARNAGE: But you’re painting a superhero symbol.

BAT: Fuck that man, I hate Batman. I hate being called Batman. It has nothing to do with being a hero, it has everything to do with being a villain. It's a universal symbol that sticks in people's minds and when they like it, they're secretly liking someone who's a Satan worshipper and does terrible things. I'm a scumbag in real life. So I love when people are like "Yay, Batman!” Making people think that they're rooting for the hero and they're actually rooting for a total scumbag. I'm happy with that. When I die come take a shit on my grave.

CARNAGE: You guys have been known to hit the occasional mural. What’s your take on that?

SMOE: It's the cycle of life. Someone gets permission to come do their stupid little whatever. I can't even think about it cause I hate that shit.

BAT: Job security. 

SMOE: Yeah that is job security. Because we're gonna go smack that shit. We're going to get what we want out of it and then someone's going to come and get paid to redo it or buff it. 

BAT: There are people who claim to bomb, but then they do these murals and you get a DM like “I actually did that.” Are you fucking serious? You claim to be a fucking graffiti writer and then you paint this shit and call me up like I fucked up? Sorry bud.

REBOE: When someone actually bombed, broke the law, got chased, dealt with Vandal Squad, racked paint, and out of that, they got a career painting murals? I respect that 100%. But only if you actually put that time in. If you're some clown from fucking Wyoming or some shit and you came here and got paid a couple thousand dollars to paint some “Good Vibes” shit on the side of a yoga studio, you can't get mad when people go over that with actual graffiti. Take that shit somewhere else, but thanks for the pretty background.

BAT: Here's the rule: If it's not bombing, it gets bombed. 

CARNAGE: How many times have you gone back and forth on the Bowery Martial Arts gate?

REBOE: I think I've done it five times. My friend worked across the street and he would send me  videos of the dude fixing it. I would get out of work and go straight there and do it again. I love having that spot. I would like to lock it down every time it gets buffed, but maybe one day I’ll just get over it, who knows. I think I have it right now, hopefully. 

BAT: A lot of times murals have shit on them already. It's a spot, open invitation, and then I'm going to get it and that's the way it goes. Fuck it, own that shit. But if you've put in your work and I recognize you then I'm obviously gonna let it live. 

REBOE: I went over a ninja that someone painted on the side of a building, but there was no name, I had no idea it was done by an old-school european writer, so I did a fill on it and the next day I was getting shit for it. If he left a name or something I would have done some research and not painted over it. Not trying to be some uneducated toy, but what the fuck do I know about euro graff? I’ve lived in NYC my whole life. Whatever, he got paid to do it, I got buffed, circle of life.

BAT: We all make mistakes.

REBOE: I don't regret it, it’s just paint on a wall. No disrespect to that guy, but if he was an actual bomber like the people on the internet were claiming, I’m sure he’d understand.

BAT: Anyone who bombs is going to have trouble, that's the way it goes. But I would rather be hated than liked, because at least I know who my enemies are and that's the best right there. When people start really liking me that's when you'll see me do something just outwardly nasty. 

REBOE: You got shit when you went over the mural on Rivington.

BAT: The funny thing about that was, I was walking down the block and had paint that I wanted to get rid of. I'm here, this is the wall, and I just did it and I ran out of paint before I could get the Winehouse and I was pissed about it, like, “Fuck man I'm leaving a spot open, maybe someone cool will get it.” But nobody did it for a while, people saw the backlash that came from that shit.

CARNAGE: That corner was a fill-in spot for as long as I can remember.

SMOE: That's how it'll stay. These people can't expect writers to just stop hitting it.

REBOE: What about the Joker, do you have any idea who that was?

BAT: Not me, but I purposely took credit for it, because I had a big Joker movie poster that I was going to sell. It just so happened that I was drawing all this anti-Joker shit because people are playing on this stupid Batman thing and I figured I might as well make some money off it. And boom, some knucklehead goes and fucking writes Joker over me and everyone's like: "Dude! You're a genius." OK, I am a genius.

REBOE: Did you like the movie?

BAT: The only thing I liked was that Robert De Niro got shot in the face. I was chilling with some fat girl in my bed, and I just wanted to have my dick sucked and fall asleep. I paid for this movie. She was all drunk from tequila and she wanted to watch it. Alright, I'll get my dick sucked to the fucking Joker movie, but she just fell asleep. So that's why I don't like the movie. I should have gotten a blow job.

CARNAGE: There’s a lot of graffiti in New York right now. Does the competition elevate the game?

REBOE: I’m not competitive at all, I just love the act of writing, whether people see it or not. I support all of it--unless you go over actual writers, dead writers, or old school shit--even if you're a toy, we were all there at one point. I don't have to like your shit, but even if you just draw fucking dicks on the wall you're pissing somebody off, who’s most likely some rich, privileged dickhead. You're devaluing their property and that’s pretty cool. I’ve love seeing people hit up all the new condos that are getting built, keep that shit going.

BAT: You're part of the greater evil. One time I looked up vandalism in the dictionary and part of the definition was "act of evil." And I was like, well, if I'm going to commit acts of evil, it's going to be the most evil thing possible. Why should I pussy-foot around? Fuck that. I love seeing Jesus graffiti. You understand that that's not loving your neighbor, right? You're part of an act of evil. Jesus Saves. Really? Do you think he's going to fucking thank you for that? I don't think so.

SMOE: And when you see other writers who are doing it properly that pushes you to go above and beyond. But at the end of the day, if no one else in the world is painting graffiti, I’ll still always do it. I do this shit for myself.

REBOE: I never did graffiti to get noticed by other people; I’ve done so many tags that I know nobody will ever see, but I know they're there. I never even expected people to know about my shit, when people photograph my graffiti and show me respect it’s a bonus and I am honored every time, I appreciate that shit a lot. One of my favorite things to hit is the green poles because they almost never get buffed. That's where you see real history, it makes you wonder who was up on that block 20 years ago. Cellar doors too, anything rusty is a green light for me. I love lurking rooftops, fire escapes, tunnels...all that shit. The only reason I actually started painting somewhat hard was because I was going through some personal bullshit that I wanted to escape, sounds corny and cliché, but it's true. I think it was the night that I met SMOE that I did one of the first really hot spots I’ve ever done and I realized, “Damn, you can really do this, you can get away with this,” and then I had a pretty lengthy run of doing all the hot spots I was always scared to do, I’ve got way more work to do though, way more neighborhoods, way more cities to cover.

SMOE: Like I said, I do this shit for myself, I actually prefer painting alone a lot of the time. But when I see dudes pushing the limits and painting hotter spots with better shit, that's what motivates me.

REBOE: You're the king of that shit. You have rocked some crazy street-side straight letters that I don't know how you got away with.

BAT: That's some magic. Most people are like, “How did this get here?”

SMOE: It's amazing to realize how much crime you can get away with. You can't think about it, you just fucking do it. 99.9% of the time you will get away with it. 

REBOE: You have to have that mentality, but you also have to be prepared for the worst and be prepared to run and stop at absolutely nothing to get away, I’ve had guns and tasers pulled on me by the cops. The people who put the battery in my back for doing hot spots were SMOE, ANSO, and ANGR. 

SMOE: You got to take the bad with the good. You're not gonna get good without the bad, and the bad is the best part. Those crazy chase stories, those crazy nights, those are what make graffiti fun.

CARNAGE: So let’s hear some stories.

SMOE: Alright. So we went to this party not that long ago. I'm with my girl and a couple of my homies. We go up to the roof, tons of writers on the roof, typical graffiti party, whatever. We get bored and we dip, but we're wasted. There's a box truck right out the door, so I start catching a fill right there. My girl and her friend are drunk and fucking around and they go into the building next door, a hotel that is getting newly renovated. They break in and I see her running around. I'm like “Yo, get the fuck out of there!”, and she's like "No, we're going to the roof!" 

I finish my shit and I run in after her and it must have set an alarm off in the building, because we're upstairs and all of a sudden we see flashlights bobbing out through the back windows and then we hear radio chatter and cops coming up the stairs. We're stuck in this empty hotel and there's cops coming up. It was crazy. Me and my girl were hiding in one closet, my homie and this other girl in another. 

Finally we're like, all right, we gotta go. We run out to the back balcony. We're on the fifth floor. We climb over the railing and on some Spiderman movie shit, we’re scaling floor to floor, hanging off the edge, dangling, feet on the railing below. My girl was doing the same thing, she was valid. Then we get to the second tier and hop to another roof, down into a parking lot, over a huge fence and run. Meanwhile my boy was still stuck in there, but luckily they got out, too. It was wild, but it made the bond with my girl stronger and now it's a great story to tell.

REBOE: I was in Long Island City painting a chill spot on the water and it was like 9 degrees that day. I was with ACEM, ANGR and MT. Anyone who knows me knows--I hate ladders, just because I can't feel like I can’t see what i’m doing. I have a five letter name, and I typically like to go pretty big when I do a fill. I also like to paint really fast, and when i’m using a jetpack I feel like i’m taking fucking years, but it was a forever spot so I wanted that shit. It's daytime. We're at the end of a park. MT finishes his fill. I climb up the ladder and then I see this lady walking by with her dog and she's staring at us. I’m like “Damn, that's not good”, but whatever, she leaves. 

I fill in my R and then I go to outline my E and it was so cold the can is almost frozen. I start shaking the can and I'm raising my arm to attempt the E again and out of the corner of my eye I see 2 people  coming up from the hole in the fence and I see NYPD on their beanies. They were like thirty feet from me, maybe even closer. I'm all the way up on the ladder, I'm wearing boots, a big ass coat, scarf, everything. I jump down off the ladder and I'm like "Yo, run, run run!" And all I hear from behind me is "Don't fucking run asshole!" The dude fucking pulled his gun out!

There was a construction site next to the spot, so we run over there and we hear the cops still screaming at us. We jump off this ledge and we're in the woods next to the construction site, and the workers are on the roof pointing us out to the cops. "They're over here, they're over here!" 

ACEM and MT get away through the weeds and me and my other homie hopped in to the construction site, the dudes we're walking past know we're not supposed to be there and I know we can't stay in there. Thankfully my boy knew the area. We waited until there were no cars coming, and ran across the main ave and we hid a couple of blocks up. Then all I see is three cop cars with the lights on flying right down the block, so we hop over a fence into someone's yard. I'm laying down there and I'm watching through the fence as the cars are slowly creeping by. After they passed us we went into a laundromat and hid in there until my other mans came and picked us up and dropped us off at the train, we were good. We had a fucking big ass dinner that night, it was just an insane day. I remember walking through that construction lot and having that feeling like, “Fuck man, I’m about to get caught AND I got work tomorrow. It’s a dub for me.” You ever have that feeling?

BAT: Take my shoelaces, take my belt, take everything ...

REBOE: I had that feeling, and then we got away. Sitting on the train, going home, sleeping in your own bed--like, “Yo, I'm not sleeping on a fucking baloney sandwich right now.” That's the best.

BAT: Hell yeah.

REBOE: Your turn.

BAT: I recently got the Manhattan Bridge. I jumped in there and got across the inside. It was raining and it was a whole escapade, the water is freezing, it's cold, I'm sliding all over the place, I make it through though and I still have paint. There's some fucko who's been dissing my shit on Canal. I've got enough paint and it's on my way, so I went to get it. I get that spot that's on the corner on those windows. It's pouring fucking rain, but I'm chilling with the umbrella and it's the middle of night. I can see down into the subway, nobody's coming up, and I can see the corner, nobody's coming. I get that spot and I'm thinking, if I could pull that off, the other two spots are nothing. 

So I fix the gate and then across the street is this little doorway with windows, and I fill in over all the tags, which I'm sure pissed people off, but I did it anyway. Finally there's the one by the elevator, which is blocking me. I have an umbrella. I'm filling in with my left hand and I'm looking over my shoulder. Nothing. All of a sudden I hear a siren and sure enough, right behind me, here they are. But they're flipping a bitch on Canal, so I'm thinking, maybe this isn't for me. But then I look and we have the moment where there's eye contact. 

I drop low and crawl back around the corner expecting for them to be going the other way. I'm on the ground, soaking wet and they're just chilling in the car. The right move is to go down into the subway. I had a mask on, I had all my shit, so I just fucking run down the steps. I'm reaching in my pocket. I get my fucking MetroCard. I swipe once, it doesn't go. I swipe twice, it lets me through, and it's the big fucking turnstile, the kind you can't hop. I get through the fucking gate, it closes and Boom! There's the cop. 

I'm on the other side of the turnstile now and we lock eyes and he gives me the look, like, "You motherfucker!" and I look in his face and I'm like, “You don't have a MetroCard, do you!?” I'm fucking running into the tunnel on the train tracks and next thing I hear is loud honking and a train had just pulled up right behind me. I keep going and I get to this point where I know the train is not going to be long. It's coming at me and there's a platform that I hop onto and there's some steps and a fucking hatch, but it's locked from the top. 

The train is passing by at one mile an hour. I figured, I'll give it two minutes and if I walk the way I was running I'm gonna pop out on the Manhattan Bridge and I should be okay. I hop down on the tracks and what do I see? Flashlights. Fuck. Okay. I have a reversible jacket on and he saw me run down with the black. They're coming at me, they're expecting me to be running towards them. I'm gonna hop the rails, switch my jacket out and fucking run back on the other side of the platform and try to get back up onto Canal. As soon as I get around the curve on the other side there's another train coming at me. It’s a fucking miss, but I'm like, “Okay, you're dying tonight. This is it, you're roadkill tonight.”

The train passes and stops at the platform and I'm close enough that I can hop up with the passengers that are getting off and I blend in with the crowd. I'm expecting for the police to be right outside, and the squad car was, but they weren't in there. But my heart was beating out of my chest. I got out of there and I threw my paint out and I was done for the night.

CARNAGE: What does it mean to you to have a few of the older writers in the video?

REBOE: A lot of the older dudes, they hate on the new generation. I understand it, I completely get it, but the OGs who show love to the new generation, I fuck with that heavy. Graffiti is traditional, you have to pass that shit down. Each one teach one. You figure a lot of shit out for yourself, but yo, I have an OG who taught me everything: how to rack, how, what and when to paint, how to talk to Vandal Squad and all that. If I didn't have that, shit would have been a lot harder for me. I'm glad that I have older heads in this video. Shoutout to JEST TVT, GESHU, SKUF, COSE RTL, SCRAMS, and my dude CH. A lot of dudes like to talk shit online. “This era was better, you wasn't there, I was the first to do this, this guy only paints these areas.” I just read that shit and laugh, you will never catch me feeding into that bullshit online, just let the streets talk.

Graffiti is for you and your people, don’t paint somewhere or do some shit you dont care to do just for the satisfaction and approval of someone else. There's older heads who only go online strictly to hate on people. You’re entitled to your opinion and shit, but damn man, sometimes fools need to keep that shit to themselves, shit is corny. If you have an issue with somebody, reach out to them, or start ragging them or something. But going online and making instagram comments, that's some little kid shit, that's wack. 

BAT: "Back in the ‘90s ..." Over there, see that fucking trash can? That's your time machine. Go back to the ‘90s where you get fucking shot on the street corner for not being from the neighborhood.

REBOE: I'm very grateful for dudes like SKUF, he gave me a lot of advice for how to go about making this video, he showed me mad encouragement and positivity.  Same with JEST and GESHU. They both told me, “Don't involve yourself with politics, just paint.” And Charlie, who was like, “Yo, it’s our job to pass tradition down, this is what graffiti is about.’’ That's some shit that'll stick with me forever. I'm never gonna forget that.

CARNAGE: Final thoughts?

ACEM: La Nueva Era. Pounds of love and respect to my closest friends REBOE, UGENE and RONDOE. Everything is everything. Peace to those who are looking for peace.

SMOE: Shoutout to anyone who’s ever shown me love in the past, present, and future. Steal anything and everything you can. Get money, and fuck the police.

REBOE: I hope this video inspires people to bomb and come correct with style. Go out and fucking destroy shit, travel to as many cities and countries as you can, and also never talk to the cops. Shoutout to Carnage, much love.

ZAM: Shoutout to my boys ELF and SAKE.

ANSO: Be good and do the right thing.